[2011.10.19] Japanese 5th Single [Winter Magic]


sweetofuu

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Yeah maybe a weekend boost, could help the girls. Plus if the girls had a guerilla concert to it would help. Like what they do for mister, it could boost the sells. But if I think about it, I think it not because the song is in the wrong season. I think with lack promotion, and everything KARA is going or had release, the "rumored album", Step(release in japan), the all about beauty. Jkamilia may be so broke that they can't buy it, since the girls are doing so well on the digital chart. I think that jkamilia are broke and they can't buy the single yet, so they are download it. Because if you think about it, how high did step and all about beauty did on the chart. Step rank like 4, without japanese promotion for the song, and all about beauty rank like first(first day), and then fourth. So they may just be broke. And knowing how much dvd and album cost, it could be likely why the girls have lower sells for WM. But I think this single would have the same longetively as the other single. Is it wrong of me to hope that the girls still break 100K within one week

Edited by kimngocnguyen06
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@kimngocnguyen06 It make sense. With All About Beauty and STEP (which the price is suddenly become so high due to the import version), most of J Kamilia which do not have their own source of income (which mean still in school) have a difficulty in buying those releases at once. Compared than previous release, Kara didn't have any additional released merchandise, maybe Kara DVD clip, but in this case it had a time distant(about a month?) between release of JCL. So it didn't affect much of JCL sales. Thus, imo the main reason is the release date itself.

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Yeah maybe a weekend boost, could help the girls. Plus if the girls had a guerilla concert to it would help. Like what they do for mister, it could boost the sells. But if I think about it, I think it not because the song is in the wrong season. I think with lack promotion, and everything KARA is going or had release, the "rumored album", Step(release in japan), the all about beauty. Jkamilia may be so broke that they can't buy it, since the girls are doing so well on the digital chart. I think that jkamilia are broke and they can't buy the single yet, so they are download it. Because if you think about it, how high did step and all about beauty did on the chart. Step rank like 4, without japanese promotion for the song, and all about beauty rank like first(first day), and then fourth. So they may just be broke. And knowing how much dvd and album cost, it could be likely why the girls have lower sells for WM. But I think this single would have the same longetively as the other single. Is it wrong of me to hope that the girls still break 100K within one week

One thing I disagree about is we always talk about J-Kamilias, of course they do help with sales, but the majority of albums are bought by the general public for the case of KARA (they are a very high visibility group in Japan). If not, 48 group strategy would have worked wonders with sales. Since the season does not fit the song, public support will naturally be low and it reflects on the sales.

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That's a really good point, that a lot of things are being released at once. Not having a job makes it remarkably hard to keep up with idol releases, woe. It may not have any record-breaking early sales, but I honestly don't think Japan has given up on KARA at all, so I don't think it's something to fret about too much. ^_^ KARA really fits the Japanese taste, so I feel they have staying power. And on the plus side, for the Kamilias this applies to, the WM single has that gorgeous PV (or the photobook), so even if people are saving for the album/broke from recent releases, it's not impossible that they won't go back and buy the single later (though there is of course a means to buy the PV digitally too), or buy the regular version for the Christmas version bonus track (which will be more in season in about a month), etc. Longerterm sales also tend to reflect the less hardcore fans continuing to buy, which certainly isn't a bad thing.

And @kimngocnguyen06, there is nothing wrong with positivity! :thumbup1:

Edit: @grainy I agree with you too, though. Looking at the STEP album, which was an import obviously bought by hardcore J-Kamilias rather than general public, it charted on Oricon but didn't top the charts by any means. It did quite well for an import, but nothing like their Japanese releases aimed for the whole Japanese public. Of course singles are much cheaper, but KARA sells at a competitive level, and I think their sales are a healthy mixture of Kamilias and casual Japanese fans who legit just like the song. So I agree in thinking the season is still something to take into account.

Edited by Chels
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One thing I disagree about is we always talk about J-Kamilias, of course they do help with sales, but the majority of albums are bought by the general public for the case of KARA (they are a very high visibility group in Japan). If not, 48 group strategy would have worked wonders with sales. Since the season does not fit the song, public support will naturally be low and it reflects on the sales.

sure song not fitting the season will have impact on the sales but it'll not be this significant if kara is being considered as a recognised jpop group in japan. i would say it's obvious that the general public isn't ready for this kind of song from kara, yet.

i have reason to suggest that it's whisper which helps to push up wm sales too.

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i would say it's obvious that the general public isn't ready for this kind of song from kara, yet.

Do you mean a ballad? Ballads tend to sell really well in Japan and are pretty standard j-pop fare, so I personally wouldn't think it would hurt the girls to do a cute winter ballad on the basis of being a ballad alone. It's a very j-poppy thing to do, and they seem to be generally accepted with that image (at least from my understanding). However, I think promoting Whisper would be a great idea, because then they would know they're getting a bonus upbeat song, and cute/upbeat stuff is obviously popular too.

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Do you mean a ballad? Ballads tend to sell really well in Japan and are pretty standard j-pop fare, so I personally wouldn't think it would hurt the girls to do a cute winter ballad on the basis of being a ballad alone. It's a very j-poppy thing to do, and they seem to be generally accepted with that image (at least from my understanding). However, I think promoting Whisper would be a great idea, because then they would know they're getting a bonus upbeat song, and cute/upbeat stuff is obviously popular too.

it puzzles me too when most of our expertise who are jpop fans mentioned kara ballad will be a success. i understand all the possible reasons given (step, 2 releases too close, lack of promotion, 2 months early, 2nd album, umj contract issue etc) but still i think the public is not ready for ballad from kara yet. and you're right, maybe whisper should be "leaked" earlier so that the first day sales would be higher.

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Do you mean a ballad? Ballads tend to sell really well in Japan and are pretty standard j-pop fare, so I personally wouldn't think it would hurt the girls to do a cute winter ballad on the basis of being a ballad alone. It's a very j-poppy thing to do, and they seem to be generally accepted with that image (at least from my understanding). However, I think promoting Whisper would be a great idea, because then they would know they're getting a bonus upbeat song, and cute/upbeat stuff is obviously popular too.

It's true that Japan likes ballad's but only the really big groups are able to sell them that well. I think that's what people are saying. Kara isn't at the level in Japan where they can put out a ballad and have it sell really really well, let alone one that is out of season. It was worth a shot because Japan does like them, but only from their biggest entertainers. I think Japan is still enamored with up-beat Kara, and as such, that's the Kara that they want to see. Over-all it's a learning process, and I think Kara's management will learn to wait to release a ballad for the future. Personally, I don't really like ballads as promotional tracks, especially not for a group like Kara, but that's just me. I know many Kamilia here want them to promote more ballad's but personally I don't. Ballad's have to really stand out to get attention, and they are very hard to promote, which I think is part of the problem, promoting a ballad is hard enough, let alone one that is out of season....

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There are lot of good and interesting suggestions in these post, they are worth taking a look at. I just hope that DSP and UMJ start thinking really hard at what went wrong, since I assume they were expecting, like us, greater sales. That's how people learn.

If they manage to sell bet 85/100k for the week it will really be some accomplishment. I think it's doable.

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It's true that Japan likes ballad's but only the really big groups are able to sell them that well. I think that's what people are saying. Kara isn't at the level in Japan where they can put out a ballad and have it sell really really well, let alone one that is out of season. It was worth a shot because Japan does like them, but only from their biggest entertainers. I think Japan is still enamored with up-beat Kara, and as such, that's the Kara that they want to see. Over-all it's a learning process, and I think Kara's management will learn to wait to release a ballad for the future. Personally, I don't really like ballads as promotional tracks, especially not for a group like Kara, but that's just me. I know many Kamilia here want them to promote more ballad's but personally I don't. Ballad's have to really stand out to get attention, and they are very hard to promote, which I think is part of the problem, promoting a ballad is hard enough, let alone one that is out of season....

I do see what you're saying, because KARA has been pretty much upbeat from the start of Japanese promotions, but a winter song seems the season most suited to a ballad, and maybe they want to start introducing yet another angle that KARA can pull off and do so in a way that isn't tucked away on an album that the general public may never hear? I don't really know what they're thinking, so it's all speculation, heh. But if they wait years doing only energetic songs, it's even harder to just throw in a pretty winter ballad that may contrast 10+ previous singles, rather than just 4.

I'm not trying to put KARA on a pedestal, but I guess I expected more. Maybe it's just the groups I follow/have seen on Oricon enough to take notice of, but even the ballads where I'm like "this song is slow and lame" still do about as well as the others, so I could have some bias coming subconsciously into play. ;) But I honestly think it would have stood a better chance if it was at least early November because people aren't really feeling in the Christmas spirit in early to mid October. (Someone needs to tell that to the stores that put their Christmas stuff out before Halloween -- maybe they've been talking with the people in charge of KARA's songs!)

And I feel you on the ballad-as-a-promo-track thing, even if I feel like I sound like I'm pushing the opposite in this discussion, lol. I'm normally not into slow songs, but I genuinely like WM, so I personally feel it is a rare ballad that I'm okay with it standing alone as a single. I just wish it had been promoted better, timed better, etc.

I guess I feel it's a bit less of an image issue for at least the general public because if they aren't a KARA fan, they'll like the song for the song, regardless of whether the group normally sells upbeat songs (that they may not have liked, or they'd probably be fans)...but that's where promotion comes into play, because if the promotion isn't high visibility, then there's less exposure for the general public. But I think that might be essentially what you're saying? That they're still building their general public fanbase, which is having an effect. And some KARA fans (new and old) may in fact be anti-ballad, which can potentially pose as a problem for selling a ballad, lol. But it seems like most j-pop artists throw in ballad singles on occasion (if they aren't already ballad-centric), whether they're high-selling or low-selling, so it didn't feel like something that would throw people for a loop, considering they've been working the cute image (which, to me, still falls in line with the cute ballad). But maybe it is.

But I do agree very much that ballads can be tough to promote, especially out of season, and it needs to be a good song if you don't have the huge followings yet. And while their Korean comeback was of course a cause for celebration, being out of the public eye can be hard on keeping a group in people's minds, so that may have had some affect? Doing something upbeat again then a ballad following may have been better timing, but I don't know. I'm far from being an expert on the matter. Just throwing out some thoughts. I don't know if they're coming across coherently, so I apologize if they're not. ^_^

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I didn't follow Oricon and Jpop groups much, but if the weekly sales are around 80K-120K it is normal for established jpop group right? For example last week chart, Laruku which I knew is a senior jpop group, sold around 80K+. If it's correct, so there is insufficient evidence to state that Kara's popularity is falling, and I'm sure they did well for this single.

The problem now, our mind has been set that their release must be sold more than 100K, or else japanese don't give interest to them now, which is proven incorrect at all. 80K is good enough for them imo.

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well, the radio ripped version has been floating around for awhile.

Also, cellphone ring tone versions were also out for awhile.

Kara always seems more popular toward the digital side than physical side.

But, I don't think kara is doing bad. =)

I think this is to be expected. Due to promotions in Korea, they had to take a break from japan promotion. To not be totally forgotten in Japan, I think they used this promotion strategy. I'm sure if Kara never released the radio version like (2 weeks early? 3 weeks early?) sales would be higher. ^^;;

They can't always keep going up and breaking a record every single release. lol~~

I think the girls will get a boost when they go on more music programs and perform on TV =).

Let's just wait for monthly sales~

Kara seems to be really strong being sticky coming back with consistent numbers.

Edited by eseul
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kara debuted as a jpop group, riiight? hallyu wave is so strong that you can't deny that kara is a kpop group.

but they aren't following the hallyu wave. i think they're on a good track ^^ And I think if this single had physical sales like go go summer, i would actually be worried? kpop groups are promoting in japan like they would in korea >.< even the digital sales pattern is KINDA there? kara has strong digital sales from casual japanese kpop fans?

i don't think umj is afraid to release another single that's not like the other singles. even if they know the single won't sell as well as a song they could have promoted.

though this is how i see it x3 this decrease in sales really surprised me. and just proves that im still clueless on the japanese market xD

kara can't keep releasing kpop-like songs... or dance pop songs... kara girls are working hard in japan and it's better to release different kinds of singles now and say they're here to stay, rather than milking the kind of popularity they have right now and try to keep the popularity level up. i wonder HOW would kpop groups do that? keep releasing kpop-like songs? sounds tiring and easily drop able popularity >.<

btw, i don't think kara's popularity has gone down one bit... these conditions are really tough to get amazing sales. and like people have said, they aren't in that level of popularity yet.

but still, these sales are really depressing. i'm kinda over it now. and other kamilias should too ^^ i feel like im not being a fan by talking about sales and marketing instead of spazzing on what they're doing... what they're up to....just supporting them ^^

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agree with every one cmt here. There 's many things affect the sales, and by the way, another main reason is that us Kamilias and even non-fan people expect "too much" from KARA. We want KARA can always sell out atleast 100k copies in the 1st week for every single they release but we just "forget" the fact that KARA just debut for 15 months in Japan. Their fanbase is still not solid, general public may have a lot of interest in KARA, but not come close to the point when they will buy everything KARA release no matter what :)

p/s: I so much surprise when I visit AKP and their forum, so many people "suprise" about the "low" sales of KARA and even post a thread to ask why LOL, since when KARA became a hot topic there ^___^

Edited by fantomas
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It kind of annoys me how people say kpop music vs jpop music. Music is just music. You can't culturally classify music. You can classify it into genres but not culture. (unless it's like enka music or something.)

You can say there are a handfull of famous people in Korea who produce music. They have lots of people begging on their knees to give them a song. They have their own signature way they make songs. It's not because they're korean or japanese that a certain song is made to sound "korean" or "japanese." It is just their taste in music.

I wish people would just stop it already. I understand when people complain, "too much korean, always raps in english, 90% is english and 10% is japanese," But really. There is always a fine line when talking like this.

Edited by eseul
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People are making a fuss over the fact that Kara might not get 100k for weekly sales. I agree with radenoactve said that i think it is normal for Jpop group that establish themselves(not extra popular like group 48 and arashi) to get sales of 80-90k something. It just that we always expect them to sell 100k and if we they didn't get that amount everyone is started to worry. When i look at past Oricon weekly chart, the only group that manage to grab the 1st weekly chart with high sales is either from Johny or group 48. Even their true Japanese artist that well establish didn't score high on the weekly. So, the point is Kara is well known to public and when this all Kpop group that flooding Japan right now is gone, i believe that Kara is one of the group that will be last longer in Japan industry. For now, i just want to support them and believe in them. No need to worry about the sales.

p:s (They also have friends connection with so many Jpop artist there.... :thumbup: )

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Wow, it's really been hot in here for the past few days when I wasn't around.

I really don't think we should be worrying so much about how well this single does on the charts. I mean, is every thing about competition and sales only? So many of the previous posts have stated ample reasons about why this single has physical sales not up to par of KARA's previous releases, so it really doesn't mean KARA's popularity is falling in Japan.

Even if it is falling at all, so what? Just continue supporting and loving KARA and their music. Unpopular KARA is still the KARA we love, isn't it? Or are we supporting KARA just because they are already popular? And it's unrealistic to have every single doing exceptionally well, not that WM isn't doing well since its dominating the charts digitally. That means people still listen to WM, just not buying the physical single. That means WM appeals to them, only that they're opting for a cheaper method to listen to the song since they may not have enough money due to the many prior releases before this without a longer gap.

I really don't see why so many are claiming WM isn't doing well. If anything, I think its quite popular already in Japan despite being out-of-season.

On a positive note, we never know if WM, which is released out-of-season, may come back and be a hit during the winter. Who knows if the sales will suddenly spike when the season comes?

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We should also consider that STEP album and the All About Beauty DVD came out around the same time. Not everyone can afford buying everything hehe so the fans could've chosen whichever product they can get more of. If it were me, I'd buy STEP and the AAB DVD over the single.

Somehow, I don't think DSP/UMJ is worried about the sales of WM. They'll probably sing this again since they'll be in Japan on Xmas. WM will stick around and get second wind.

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for me releasing a ballad was a good move, a move to distinguish KARA from all the other kpop groups..

They need to release different kind of songs, seasonal songs..

I strongly believe that the main problem is WM is so out of season :sweatdrop:

Adding to that we have to consider that there have been their other releases, not too much promotion and a rumored album..

So sales weren't that bad, they just didn't meet our expectation, which were too high, as usual :whistling:

we can't jump into conclusions like Japan doesn't care about Kara anymore, they should go back to Korea, DSP/UMJ ruined them ecc..

even established jpop group/artist have/had their up and down, even the big Arashi had their down (a long time ago)..

Let's not worry too much..

Kara is still the group that will stay in Japan even when the Hallyu wave will fade..

Edited by 329.724.611
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